Occupy Seattle

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/12 ... -us-flags/

Send them off to N. Korea. See how long they make it there with these kind of acts.

Yeah, send them away for doing something that I disagree with. That is so like a small minded child. Oh, I didn't mean to insult small minded children everywhere.

I have allegiance to my country, not a flag, not a president or any other abstract symbol. Grow up and stop being stupid. Patriotism is not about hiding the flaws in this country, patriotism is about fixing the flaws of this country and identifying the flaws in this country is the first step to fixing the flaws in this country.

If you don't like this fact, I don't care. I won't be taking the slimy easy way out of the damage the Courts have created.

By the way, does anybody here know the difference between Corporate Sponsorship of the Auto Racing and sports industries and Corporate Sponsorship of the Legislative Process??????????





Corporation want everybody to know who they are sponsoring for races and sports and don't want anybody to know what legislative processes and/or legislators they are sponsoring.

They should be made to where their Corporate Sponsors Logos on their shirts and jackets.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

And those whom advocate for a laissez faire system should be sent to Somalia or Haiti, with none of those taxes, regulation or "socialist" Obama policies. Sound like a fair trade?
Oh, and I'm a Social Democrat so by my nature I am anti-communist...we were the ones who stared down East Germany and we were the ones who fought the Bolsheviks. Ever hear of the Iron Front?
So, the place to deport me to would be that awful, oppress country called Denmark...yep, ohh with their freedom ranked higher than in the US and lowest wealth disparity and low as can be poverty rate. Oh, please don't send me to that DREADFUL place that Copenhagen is or worst yet, DON'T SEND ME TO SWEDEN!!!

http://www.moufies.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/socialism-swedish-girls.jpg





and que the humorless radical feminists in three, two, one...

Flag burning is a great example of the sort of offensive political speech the first amendment should protect. Criminalizing flag burning is just another example of the US ignoring it's own constitution, highlighting our political corruption and hypocrisy.

I find the act reprehensible.

But I would use my Second Amendment Rights to protect another's First.

You're so ignorant you can't see that your call for North Korean deportation goes against everything the Constitution had in mind.

The flag is a symbol. What is America like right now and does the flag represent that greed and corruption of what the Country is supposed to be? If so, the flag is a symbol of greed and corruption. It is still only a symbol and nothing more. Why not pledge your allegiance to some corporate logo?

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

The flag represents the ideal of America, not what America has become. Still, I wave my flag proudly because I know the constitution grants me the right to burn it if I so choose.

The country can still be what it was meant to be.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

The old myth of what the USA was meant to be. When our nation was created, there was slavery and the Constitution counted slaves as 3/5 of a person (corporations are 5/5ths of a person today . We nuked Japan (that was completely unacceptable). The Constitution was created for rich landowning folks.

Sure, there are worse places to live... However, I no longer have any pride in the USA. And if we start a war against Iran, then my anger will hit a 10.0 on the Richter scale.

People need to cut the shit out of their elementary school brainwashing about how awesome the US is. Read your history books.

It is the land of the greedy and the home of the brainless.

_________________
http://tigertheo1985.blogspot.com

This idiotic post has forced me to come out of hibernation on this board.

First, slavery was legal in JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH when America was born. Unlike every other nation, we had an ongoing debate about ending it with several of the founding father (Franklin, Aaron Burr, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Rush, Thomas Paine etc) were abolitionists.
Second, the property requirement to vote was struck down in 1812, so we had a whopping 25 years in which a land owner was the only one allowed to vote. Third, it was either drop the bomb on Japan or invade...do the math. The invasion would have killed a lot more people. Sure, they should have dropped only one bomb, but give me a break. It was a war.
Sure, the U.S. government has done some awful things. But is that the nation or its leaders? The leaders, who else.

Want history, son? My grandfather came here from Italy when he was fourteen years old, after Mussolini's thugs killed his older brother for belonging to a banned union. His parents got him out and when he was old enough he joined the air force...guess what country he was bombing? Italy. He bombed his home country of Sicily when Patton was rolling in, because he knew it had to be done. Before he died, he told me all of this and you know what he told me? He told me he did it so I could be free and vote.

America is my home, and my country. I would die for it a hundred thousand times. Are there problems with America? Hell yea. Major problems? Damn right. Should we fix those problems? Of course. But to say that the country itself is the problem is frankly a big load of bullshit.

History is kind of strange, like reality;they are what they are and it is only our perception of history and/or reality that changes. Before giving the "Founding Fathers" a pass on their stupidity, greed and intentional ignorance you might consider researching the lynching of blacks, the raping of slaves, Jim Crow and get a real feel for what this Country has actually done. Fifteen United States Presidents owned slaves, eight had slaves while President of the United States, Madison had his own slave at the White House.

The fact that the "Democracy" was closed to so many when it was contrived speaks volumes of the writers; they were short sighted idiots with their own comfort dictating their actions and not the general welfare of the rest of the Citizens.

You also might wish to research the omitted text of the Constitution written by Franklin (I think it was Franklin) that freed the slaves. The southern colonies refused to sign onto the revolution if their "free" workforce was taken away from them.

BTW, slavery did not end until after a civil war, almost a century after this country was created.

Currently, everybody is blaming legislators for the problems in our Country. The legislators are partly to blame. When somebody says "overturn Citizens United v. the FTC" and then blames the elected official it is quite clear they have little understanding about anything.

Citizens United v. the FTC was about a law written to limit funding by Corporations that was overturned by a Judge sitting in a Courtroom; not a lawmaker/legislator. The law was written by lawmakers/legislators which says they did do their job. This eventually went to the United States Supreme Court where these traitors to this Country overturned the law, essentially selling our country to the highest bidder.

The only solution to this is to amend the Constitution to specify who the rights defined in the Constitution are reserved for; the individual. This eliminates all private funding for elections and legislation that does not come from an individual. The Court has no say in this and has to follow the rule of Constitutional Law. IOW, the Courts now has to strike down laws giving Corporations any rights.

In my sig file there are three amendments that will correct this. It is up to OWS and all the groups to force this into the Law of the Land. Tweet, facebook, link or email [do not spam the links] to people.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

Okay, and guess what? Siberian Americans also owned slaves, so what's your point?...oh, and I call them "Siberian Americans" because they were NOT the first natives in this country. It is now a very politically incorrect yet almost scientific certainty that there were people here before the "first nations people" arrived from Siberia. All the most ancient of sites of human habitation in America are clearly not "native American" but are made by someone else. In fact, right here in Washington, they found a skeleton of one of these pre-Siberian aboriginals and it clearly was not a Siberian, but was most likely related to the Ainu of Japan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_man
So what did my Siberian ancestors do when they came to America and found these people there? They probably massacred them. Reason being, all Siberian-American DNA has no trace of any other ethnic group, so they didn't breed with them. So, the same "first nation" people who were massacred by the Europeans massacred a group or groups of people themselves a thousand years before.
Furthermore, when the Portuguese first went to Africa they only wanted gold and spices and were willing to trade. But the Africans preferred to sell them slaves. You see, slavery was a big time business in Africa, with nations like Ghana and Ashanti having tons and tons of slaves, and they were more willing to part with their slaves then they were to part with their gold. That's how the slave trade went on, mostly: my African ancestors being sold by another group of Africans to Arabs who then sold them to the Dutch or Portuguese who then sold them in the Americas. If it wasn't for Africans willingness to enslave one another, slavery would have never happened as it did happen.

You see, history is funny. There are no good guys, and no bad guys, just guys.



That was at a time when anything other than an absolute monarchy was deemed a radical form of government.


Exactly, they were fighting over it back then too.


Siberian Americans still kept slaves well after the civil war. Hell, the Comanches had a practice of kidnapping women of the opposing sides of a conflict and forcing them into sexual slavery. When the US army entered into negotiations with them, the Comanches refuses to surrender the settler women whom they kidnapped and claimed they had the right as a people to gang rape them. Well, the US army responded by killing the bastards, thus ending the negotiations.
This is a historic fact, btw.


If more of the legislators were against corporate personhood, it would go away.



That I agree with you on.

Well I think business have certain rights, just not the same rights that people have. If I donate a hundred dollars to a candidate it is not the same as a corporation donating a hundred thousand dollars to a Super-Pac.

And the Celts sacked Rome and ransomed Rome back to the Romans, the Greeks taught the Tuscans to drain the swamps so they could build an empire, the Picts are supposed to be descended from the Moor, there were supposedly two exoduses from Africa, all humans are supposedly descended from a single mother.

History is what it is and the framers were a bunch of self-serving slave owners that drafted a document so it would not interfere with their lives and/or lively hood. The language used to define who these rights were given to is intentionally vague. As always, the expense for this self-serving Republic was paid for by all those that died in the war; most of them poor.

That was my point.

This point is clearly substantiated by the fact that 14 Presidents owned slaves. 7 of these while they held office and at least one had slaves in the white house. The general public elected these people to office and I don't have a number of federally elected/appointed officials that owned slaves.

This country was built on the backs of slaves and the poor. It is the poor that go fight wars, not the wealthy. Please make note of the lack of the use of color, race, ethnicity or any other form of declarative term to further define and separate people into ever smaller identifiers. There are poor white, hispanic, asian, black, etc..., people. Your ethnicity does not dictate your economic status.

As for slavery. There were slaves in almost every country at one time or another so your ethnicity does not dictate your status as a slave or not; slavery is still an ongoing problem.

It is your choice whether or not to get mired in the minutia or to fully examine the facts, learn from these facts as to what direction you want this country to proceed and act with purpose to move our country in that direction.

The fact that the Constitution was written by slave owners to protect their own interest is a fact that determined the direction the Country went. We can learn from that or get stuck in the minutia of who had slaves.

The choices we make impact those around us and just as importantly, those that follow. Personally, I want my impact to be positive and so I educate myself and do those things that I can to either minimize the negative impact or make my impact positive on those around me and those that follow.

We are responsible for all the choices we make.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

1. The 3/5 was a compromise so that the Constitution could get ratified instead of having a confederation of states with no common agreements between them for governance. The roots of the Civil War were laid in 1775 anyway if you're a true student of history. You then make some bizzare leap that in 1783 because a slave was 3/5 of a person and today a corporation is 5/5 of a person that somehow it is inherently evil and flawed from the beginning. The idea of corporate personhood didn't happen until AFTER the Civil War. Prior to that there were strong regulations that greatly limited the powers or corporations, which were generally created for public works or public benefit projects, and had termination dates and clauses. Personhood of corporations was an incredibly crappy decision by SCOTUS - and has zero to do with what is written in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or subsequent amendments.

2. Nuking Japan was completely unacceptable??? Wow, talk about rewriting history. I guess you cheer every day year on December 7, 1941 on how those Japanese struck out against the Imperialistic United States, France and United Kingdom with strikes against Indonesia, the Phillipines, multiple Pacific Islands - oh and Hawaii. Why don't you ask the Chinese or Koreans about how they feel about how World War II ended? Or do Japanese atrocities and biological warfare become somehow - acceptable in your book. How about American soldiers who were subjected to vivisection without anesthetic in Japanese POW camps, so they could document pain thresholds, physiology and how the body works. Ya, we really need to filet live humans to observe how a heart beats. But I guess you'd rather a million US soldiers had been thrown against the Japanese mainland resulting in what would have been vastly more deaths.

Hiroshima was a military and industrial city - and the United States had up until late 1944, again, if you were truly a student of history, taken an approach of doing daylight, precision, surgical bombing raids (as much as World War II technology would allow). Known civilian facilities like schools, prisons, hospitals, churches, and neighborhoods were carefully avoided - at tremendous loss to life of bomber forces. The British would do night bombing in the European theater carpet bombing with indiscriminate consideration. The US did daytime raids, with horrific casualties until the P-47 and P-51 entered the theater.

If you want to focus on acts by the US military in World War II that could be called unacceptable - the fire bombing of Dresden (the background for Slaughterhouse Five) in the closing days of World War II is without question a dark act. Additionally the fire bombing of Tokyo killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined and did nothing to end the war.

The irony of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that the United States did not have enough fissionable material to make a fourth bomb, and it was questionable if they could have built a third. Had Japan not surrendered an all out invasion of the Japanese mainland would have been required.

If you don't think the Japanese people would have fought when faced with a Russian advance to the west and a million Americans storming the beaches to the east - again - check your history. The Japanese military tried to overthrow the Emperor who wanted to surrender to end his people's suffering after Nagasaki, and almost succeeded in doing. it. Many Japanese military officers went on to commit ritualistic suicide rather than face the dishonor of surrender.

It is a culture you simply, clearly, do not understand.

History can only teach if you read it and learn it. This is where our country is headed with fake patriotism.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act

Very, VERY, true. We are definitely heading down that path.

Did you read the post about converting the protests/march to a strike and collective bargaining? It would solve the problem of getting a permit and unions would end up having to fight for everybody's already existent right to collective bargaining.

An attorney friend of mine thought it could be the way to go.

_________________
--
Nobody Important
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-status-of-created-entities
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-29-publics-right-to-know
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-30-holiday-voting-act